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barrigj.
I have an ultrex.
That big heavy trolling motor will cost a mph over a the older lighter/lower profile ones I believe.
Bad torque steer, like BCB says, is too high on the plate – but it’s also from too much trim, which will also cause chine walking. As you go up on the plate, you need to be using less trim at each increase. BCB’s, set up right, require very little trim to run their best. A lot of folks use the benchmark of cowl high rooster tail. On a Sabre, set up right & trimmed right – the tail will be long and low with all of the hull spray coming out of the back of the boat with little gap in between. I trim to the WP gauge, but don’t have low inlets.
Mine is an ’08 Sabre w/ 150 efi. I chased the rabbit for top speed for years and had it 65-67 depending on season. I finally figured out that set up for max speed meant poor performance with a tourney load. Set it up to run heavy and it’ll be a bit of a handful running light with essentially too much lift. The Sabre is a weight / distribution critical hull that tends to be very unforgiving of front weight distribution. Load the heavy to the back – light in the bow and you’ll only give up 3-4mph with full fuel, livewells, and a partner. Load down the front storage and you’ll kill your speed.
I’m not being critical of the hull design – it’s awesome. I’ve owned mine for 14 years and it’s still showroom new – a testament to the build quality. I’ve just learned everything has it’s challenges and an 18′ boat that has capability to run these speeds requires different setups for different useage. You have to set it up for what it’s most used for and accept the differences when it’s called to a different task.
Well let me give you the break down, but I did find that adding my 100 pound son to the cooler this past week dropped the speed down 20 mph. So yes nose heavy affects the performance a lot.
When I purchased the boat and it was empty expect for me and 1/4 tank of gas I was only able to touch 66 with very heavy steering. Meaning it was hell to bump the steering wheel to control the chine. Then loaded as with tackle(i don’t change anything) full tank and my oldest son. Together we are about 300. Plus I had a 25lb anchor(gone now). Still only able to get about 66 if lucky touch 67.
Then I raised the motor and then fully weighted down I can easily get 67-68 and chine is much easier to control with both of us in the boat full tank, anchor and I had about 60lb tool box(been trimmed down to the import stuff now) next to the batteries. Currently the boat drives the best at WOT. On calm water to light chop it is very good now. Much like this boat(it is a 2 stroke) BassCat Sabre FTD 175 Mercury – YouTube
I don’t think he is loaded, but I carry all my tackle in the first box, some other tackle in the front with rain gear. The performance out of this boat really has NOT changed other than increased some speed and control. This is why I was trying to understand what motor height does to a boat in both extremes, too low and too high.
It was my Sabre Wheelman drove. Have a 4 blade on it now. With tackle in the rear, the boat runs 68-69. Thats with an Ultrex on the bow. The boat does not like a ton of weight in the bow. Heavy stuff in the back. Light stuff in the bow and it will run.
Correct I am running 68-69 now with all my tackle up front and yes a few of the box combined is some pretty good weight. But real heavy stuff is in the back. The boat is running faster weighed down.
At the end of the day my understanding still has not been answered. Why does the boat run better and a bit easier to stabilize now that the motor has come up? I have heard from other with 150’s but there seems to be some big differences in the two motors. Is that why moving my up helped? I perfer the boat to run the way it is, now I not sure how much 3/4 to an inch hurts in ruff water but that so far is just slowing down.
Jstew:
Bad torque steer, like BCB says, is too high on the plate – but it’s also from too much trim, which will also cause chine walking. As you go up on the plate, you need to be using less trim at each increase. BCB’s, set up right, require very little trim to run their best. A lot of folks use the benchmark of cowl high rooster tail. On a Sabre, set up right & trimmed right – the tail will be long and low with all of the hull spray coming out of the back of the boat with little gap in between. I trim to the WP gauge, but don’t have low inlets.
Mine is an ’08 Sabre w/ 150 efi. I chased the rabbit for top speed for years and had it 65-67 depending on season. I finally figured out that set up for max speed meant poor performance with a tourney load. Set it up to run heavy and it’ll be a bit of a handful running light with essentially too much lift. The Sabre is a weight / distribution critical hull that tends to be very unforgiving of front weight distribution. Load the heavy to the back – light in the bow and you’ll only give up 3-4mph with full fuel, livewells, and a partner. Load down the front storage and you’ll kill your speed.
I’m not being critical of the hull design – it’s awesome. I’ve owned mine for 14 years and it’s still showroom new – a testament to the build quality. I’ve just learned everything has it’s challenges and an 18′ boat that has capability to run these speeds requires different setups for different useage. You have to set it up for what it’s most used for and accept the differences when it’s called to a different task.
You have a narrow Sabre or FTD? I believe when they moved the tanks from rear to underseat in ‘04 that made them more sensitive to weight up front as well as the wider front deck in ‘07. Granted outboards have been getting heavier too, so maybe helps balance the boat out.
G-Rant:
Correct I am running 68-69 now with all my tackle up front and yes a few of the box combined is some pretty good weight. But real heavy stuff is in the back. The boat is running faster weighed down.
At the end of the day my understanding still has not been answered. Why does the boat run better and a bit easier to stabilize now that the motor has come up? I have heard from other with 150’s but there seems to be some big differences in the two motors. Is that why moving my up helped? I perfer the boat to run the way it is, now I not sure how much 3/4 to an inch hurts in ruff water but that so far is just slowing down.
As long as the boat still runs well loaded in the heat then I wouldn’t worry about it, my boat wouldn’t at 1/2” above though I’ve got a less powerful engine. As Jstew pointed out you don’t want rooster tail above cowl, so if you’re not getting enough lift and having to try and trim to create it then that’s going to be inefficient. Your slip numbers don’t point to that though. The hull will naturally start to lift around 50mph because of aerodynamics as well.
Wheelman:
Jstew:
Bad torque steer, like BCB says, is too high on the plate – but it’s also from too much trim, which will also cause chine walking. As you go up on the plate, you need to be using less trim at each increase. BCB’s, set up right, require very little trim to run their best. A lot of folks use the benchmark of cowl high rooster tail. On a Sabre, set up right & trimmed right – the tail will be long and low with all of the hull spray coming out of the back of the boat with little gap in between. I trim to the WP gauge, but don’t have low inlets.
Mine is an ’08 Sabre w/ 150 efi. I chased the rabbit for top speed for years and had it 65-67 depending on season. I finally figured out that set up for max speed meant poor performance with a tourney load. Set it up to run heavy and it’ll be a bit of a handful running light with essentially too much lift. The Sabre is a weight / distribution critical hull that tends to be very unforgiving of front weight distribution. Load the heavy to the back – light in the bow and you’ll only give up 3-4mph with full fuel, livewells, and a partner. Load down the front storage and you’ll kill your speed.
I’m not being critical of the hull design – it’s awesome. I’ve owned mine for 14 years and it’s still showroom new – a testament to the build quality. I’ve just learned everything has it’s challenges and an 18′ boat that has capability to run these speeds requires different setups for different useage. You have to set it up for what it’s most used for and accept the differences when it’s called to a different task.
You have a narrow Sabre or FTD? I believe when they moved the tanks from rear to underseat in ‘04 that made them more sensitive to weight up front as well as the wider front deck in ‘07. Granted outboards have been getting heavier too, so maybe helps balance the boat out.
Mine’s not an FTD, but the hull is the same. FTD has a different top cap with shallower gunwales. It has under seat mid tank. Difference in hull weight or motor weight is nominal. I have a dual console. Our power curves are different. I’m rpm limited to 5850. I carry little weight in front of the consoles. Main tackle storage is behind passenger seat.
Here is a link to motor set up and chine walking.
The Sabre with the 175 is a solid 69 mph performer.
Watch your water pressure as BCB stated.
BCB rigs do not like a lot of trim. This will bring in the chine earlier.
My Sabre would start chining about 63 mph. It was set up well and ran a Trophy Plus prop. With the Fury you may see a faster speed, but the Ultrex may pull that down a bit.
Don
Wheelman:
G-Rant:
Correct I am running 68-69 now with all my tackle up front and yes a few of the box combined is some pretty good weight. But real heavy stuff is in the back. The boat is running faster weighed down.
At the end of the day my understanding still has not been answered. Why does the boat run better and a bit easier to stabilize now that the motor has come up? I have heard from other with 150’s but there seems to be some big differences in the two motors. Is that why moving my up helped? I perfer the boat to run the way it is, now I not sure how much 3/4 to an inch hurts in ruff water but that so far is just slowing down.
As long as the boat still runs well loaded in the heat then I wouldn’t worry about it, my boat wouldn’t at 1/2” above though I’ve got a less powerful engine. As Jstew pointed out you don’t want rooster tail above cowl, so if you’re not getting enough lift and having to try and trim to create it then that’s going to be inefficient. Your slip numbers don’t point to that though. The hull will naturally start to lift around 50mph because of aerodynamics as well.
I have an FTD.
G-Rant:
Wheelman:
G-Rant:
Correct I am running 68-69 now with all my tackle up front and yes a few of the box combined is some pretty good weight. But real heavy stuff is in the back. The boat is running faster weighed down.
At the end of the day my understanding still has not been answered. Why does the boat run better and a bit easier to stabilize now that the motor has come up? I have heard from other with 150’s but there seems to be some big differences in the two motors. Is that why moving my up helped? I perfer the boat to run the way it is, now I not sure how much 3/4 to an inch hurts in ruff water but that so far is just slowing down.
As long as the boat still runs well loaded in the heat then I wouldn’t worry about it, my boat wouldn’t at 1/2” above though I’ve got a less powerful engine. As Jstew pointed out you don’t want rooster tail above cowl, so if you’re not getting enough lift and having to try and trim to create it then that’s going to be inefficient. Your slip numbers don’t point to that though. The hull will naturally start to lift around 50mph because of aerodynamics as well.
I have an FTD.
Nice Read!
Rich12:
It was my Sabre Wheelman drove. Have a 4 blade on it now. With tackle in the rear, the boat runs 68-69. Thats with an Ultrex on the bow. The boat does not like a ton of weight in the bow. Heavy stuff in the back. Light stuff in the bow and it will run.
Thanks again Rich, beautiful boat you have!
Cajunhunter67:
Here is a link to motor set up and chine walking.
The Sabre with the 175 is a solid 69 mph performer.
Watch your water pressure as BCB stated.
BCB rigs do not like a lot of trim. This will bring in the chine earlier.My Sabre would start chining about 63 mph. It was set up well and ran a Trophy Plus prop. With the Fury you may see a faster speed, but the Ultrex may pull that down a bit.
Don
I know the OP has a FTD as well as I do, just thought the narrower original might have less weight forward of the console. I am limited to 5850rpm as well with my 150hp 4-stroke, though have different gearing of 1.92. I’ve spun a 25” Fury to 66.6mph with my Dual Console. The 175 4-stroke has ~50lbs on the old 2-stroke 175 or like carrying an extra battery in the back, so figure it changes the center of gravity point with the boat slightly just like fuel load or live wells do. The smaller the boat the more the weight affects thing, but the bigger the engine or prop the more that weight can be overcome is my experience. Mine starts walking around 63mph as well fwiw, but I do believe the 2-stroke 150 has slightly more torque in the mid range than 4-stroke 150 and larger cubic inch 4-stroke 175 actually makes more than 2-stroke 175 albeit with a weight penalty.
So after reading that article, I check the engine and all bolts were tight. But I did find that there was about 1/16 to 1/18 movement in the motor from left to right. I found that it was lose on the tilt tube. On the right side(drivers) there is a sleeve that you loosen the allen bolt and unscrew the collar to take up the slack. Now the motor is tight. I am not sure if this would have affected the stability or not. But we’ll see.
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