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New owner 2011 Sabre FTD with a 150 ProXS, 23P tempest plus, and dual Blades. Old boat was an 18′ Champion with a 150 and I would run it to full trim at any speed and it ran great.
This Sabre is a different story. I start to lose water pressure as I’m trimming it out- I don’t know what the prop to pad measurement is yet. But it seems to run very well without much trim.
I’m at a loss on how to setup or if I should change anything. I just hate seeing the water pressure drop.
gmosborne187:
New owner 2011 Sabre FTD with a 150 ProXS, 23P tempest plus, and dual Blades. Old boat was an 18′ Champion with a 150 and I would run it to full trim at any speed and it ran great.
This Sabre is a different story. I start to lose water pressure as I’m trimming it out- I don’t know what the prop to pad measurement is yet. But it seems to run very well without much trim.
I’m at a loss on how to setup or if I should change anything. I just hate seeing the water pressure drop.
Congrats on the upgrade! What water pressure are you seeing at WOT exactly and how high is your rooster tail?
you have a couple of options………
lower the engine using the jack plate.
plug the top two or more inlets on the gear case.
you should maintain at least 12-15 psig water pressure at top end speed. if that engine gets hot from lack of water pressure it will shut itself down! you should target 5500-5750 top end rpms.
150 engines in this range can require a water pump kit or side scoops to help with pressures. A Mercury dealership can assist you on the side scoops and verify if that engine has a water pump variation.
I am too somewhat new to Basscat after owning several other boats. One of my best friends owns a similar sized Champion to my Margay. Both with Merc 150s. I have fished in his Champ and others, a lot.
If the Sabre runs anything like my Margay, you’ll just have to forget the Champ way of getting on plane. My boat runs fairly flat with very little trim very well. At about 48 mph, I can slowly start adding trim. I then feel it hook up and it’s on. I can trim higher after that without loss of pressure. If you trim before the bow lifts, you’re just raising the prop without raising the bow.
I would suggest that when you measure prop to pad mark your trim gauge at the point the pad is level and the anti-cav plate is level. I predict your boat is going to like that spot for general running. and getting up to speed for the hook up.
My prop to pad is about 4.25″ which seems low, but nothing about my performance suggests anything higher. While I do not like the lower speed plowing, I absolutely love this boat when it hooks up and the bow lifts. I am currently researching props to see if there is a 4 blade out there that will get the bow up before 48 MPH. I can tell you the Trophy Plus is not is.
PMantle:
I am too somewhat new to Basscat after owning several other boats. One of my best friends owns a similar sized Champion to my Margay. Both with Merc 150s. I have fished in his Champ and others, a lot.
If the Sabre runs anything like my Margay, you’ll just have to forget the Champ way of getting on plane. My boat runs fairly flat with very little trim very well. At about 48 mph, I can slowly start adding trim. I then feel it hook up and it’s on. I can trim higher after that without loss of pressure. If you trim before the bow lifts, you’re just raising the prop without raising the bow.
I would suggest that when you measure prop to pad mark your trim gauge at the point the pad is level and the anti-cav plate is level. I predict your boat is going to like that spot for general running. and getting up to speed for the hook up.
My prop to pad is about 4.25″ which seems low, but nothing about my performance suggests anything higher. While I do not like the lower speed plowing, I absolutely love this boat when it hooks up and the bow lifts. I am currently researching props to see if there is a 4 blade out there that will get the bow up before 48 MPH. I can tell you the Trophy Plus is not is.
I agree if you over trim before getting on the final pad you’re water psi will drop because of the LU not being perpendicular to water line, this will also be noticed by you throwing a tall rooster tail. At around 45-50 is when aerodynamics start to help lift the hull. Different props will have more natural lift and you can move weight around to help fly the bow more, but the Trophy on my Sabre carries the hull out of the water at slower speeds better because there is more blade surface area than the Fury and Tempest that I also own. The fury produces the least amount of lift as it’s a smaller diameter than the Tempest. I haven’t tried a Bravo or Fury 4, though know they’re slower on the topend than the 3-blades from what I hear and the Trophy only gives up 1mph in my case. I have a motorguide up front and a Minn Kota adds bow weight and drag if that’s what you have, the other difference in the Margay and Sabre is the gas tank location.
I am about to order a Razor 4 22P with added cupping as soon as Mark calls me back. I have read the Solas Scorpion really lifts, but I do not like what I read about their quality.
I should have specified. I’m seeing around 15psi wide open, drops to around 12psi as I add trim. I stopped adding trim when pressure started dropping.
I could hear the motor as water pressure dropped, and rooster tail started shooting above the cowl.
At speeds 45mph + the boat definitely lifts more and there is much less spray out the sides.
I’m new to high performance boats also- this is my second bass boat so it’s all new to me. Love the BassCat!
gmosborne187:
I should have specified. I’m seeing around 15psi wide open, drops to around 12psi as I add trim. I stopped adding trim when pressure started dropping.
I could hear the motor as water pressure dropped, and rooster tail started shooting above the cowl.
At speeds 45mph + the boat definitely lifts more and there is much less spray out the sides.
I’m new to high performance boats also- this is my second bass boat so it’s all new to me. Love the BassCat!
No worries, 12-15psi is in the range as Phil mentioned. No need to shoot a rooster tail higher than the cowl, so sounds like the trim angle is where it needs to be. What speed and rpm are you seeing?
The FTD is weight sensitive especially if running full fuel in the underseat storage, so keep that in mind with how you have heavier tackle/gear laid out if ever struggling to get the bow to lift.
I know the Sabre FTD with the Merc 175 was susceptible to low water pressure when trimming up with speed.
The trick is to add appropriate size set screws to the two upper holes (both sides) of the water intake.
After I added the set screws I had no water pressure issues.
With the Sabre, once out the hole, let the boat gain speed while tapping the trim up. If your rooster tail is over the engine cowl you have over trimmed. With experience you will find the happy spot on the trim.
Don
You can’t drive a cat like a champ. Due to the way the water intakes are – too low and over trimmed causes low water pressure as well. The water goes over the intakes but not in. I’ve been running my Sabre 150efi since 2008. I’m at about 3.25 PTP (1/4” above flush plates). Throttle is power, trim is speed. Don’t touch the trim button until the bow has settled on holeshot. Trim by WP and gps speed. Set up right, you’ll use little more than 1/4 trim fully aired out & 15# WP. Tempest 23 is a great prop year round, but you’ll be on the limiter in cold weather. I prefer the 24 Tempest Plus that’s been B&B’d. I also run an A45 Trophy 24 that’s my favorite tourney prop loaded heavy, because it carries the stern better w/ faster holeshot. Mine’s stern heavy with 3 x grp 31 batteries.
If you overload the front boxes, it’ll kill speed & handling to the tune of about 5mph. I have 13 rods and about 8 – 10 lbs. of tackle In front of the consoles. The Sabre is very bow weight sensitive. Running by myself, empty wells, under 1/2 tank fuel, she’ll run 65-67 gps. Partner, his stuff & full fuel it’s 63mph aired out. Air carries the bow, you just trim enough to release the bow and let speed & air do its job.
Forget the cowl high rooster tail. I really can’t see much tail aired out because it’s long & low. All of the hull spray is straight back. It’ll start trying to walk at about 63 light and it’s pretty easy to drive above.
This video I took playing around when I first got my Sabre might help visualize things as typically you aren’t looking backwards much at 60+. You can see when the boat gets on the final pad as the wake narrows and the rooster tail naturally drops because the bow is beginning to naturally lift and “fly” or “aired out”
While the Tempest was a standard wheel at the time in this model, today they have other options like the newer Fury in 22 or 23 versions. They did not build a Fury in 22 or 23 at that time and the newer versions are a little different than all were at that time.
Keymaster – please tell us the differences between the early & new fury props? I’ve twisted up a like-new 3yo Fury 24 to just below limiter with a partner to 65 which was great. Issues with the prop are that it accelerated much slower than the Tempest Plus and never felt agile or “hooked up”. I know it’s a stiffer prop to turn and due to that slower acceleration. Not the prop’s fault – 2.5 150 doesn’t have the torque to spin it easily. Smaller diameter got me +2mph on top.
Has Merc made it easier to spin? If I could have Fury holeshot, Tempest lift pull & handling, and Fury top end – it would be the perfect prop. Don’t think dropping pitch to a 23 would make it better, but I’ve been wrong too often before.
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