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This post was copied from another board where a consumer had a question, which creates another question and etc. this should answer all resin questions through 2016 model year.
#9 Today, 10:18 AM Obviously this is due to interest in a used boat. Easy answers are not easy, as further questions develop on other models and what about this model year. We continue to be transparent and pardon the lengthy answer for all. Some of this is archived here and we know its in parts. Resins have been an ongoing development since the 2004 MACT regulation was applied by EPA.
The first boats post MACT were AOC Hydropel low HAP (VOC) Vinyl Ester and that proved to not perform to our preference, compared to what was previously used. We tested most every variant of low HAP VE before MACT and settled on AOC as the best in our results at that time.
The previous VE resin was run from 1998 through 2003 and was an absolutely great pure vinyl ester across the board, used throughout on all products. Recession times set in with 911 and competition using much cheaper products post 2000 to 2004, or 2010, is all that prevents this today. Paying more than twice as much for resin and again bumping glass costs for AOC is not appealing to consumers price shopping.
We have large dollars in better product and just two weeks ago a three time BCB owners was using price to navigate a Premium model for $3,000 less in another brand, while not shopping apples to apples. We understand the relationship to price, products and quality, though price alone is no comparative. In 2007 resins were changed to an extremely tough VE Barrier coat behind the Gelcoat and the most widely used (#1) marine resin, at that time, in the marine business, this was another AOC product. The barrier coat was a mess to deal with while it aged our facilites and equipment prematurely, worked great though was just to difficult and could not be cleaned once cures were initiated. It proved too costly on maintenance.
In 2009 we stepped back into an AOC Iso blended hybrid that was supported with HK VE Barrier that proved out in testing. Next in fall of 2012 we had AOC develop our own hybrid resin that was from our spec window with different ingredients and properties, bought then as an X-2013 Experimental until recently in 2015 they gave it another number. Our sister company Nautique is presently testing this resin for their application. To date it is a BCB specific product. This remains used in all parts and rear laminates, plus all Advantage and Vision models. It has worked better than any resin to this time frame since MACT. We do remain using the HK Vinyl Ester barrier coat in a 20 to 25 mil thickness behind the Gelcoat to protect from crazing and permeation.
In 2015 (2014 actual) model year we moved the Premium line to AME-6001 pure vinyl ester (VE) resins on the first laminates. This resin is not a hybrid and not available earlier. This then raised those resin cost by appx. 240% on some of these laminates all were over 215% more, more than double. Obviously we felt it is much better! The product became available after Ashland purchased the product line and the tech specs from DOW. Durakene was a solid VE resin that had to be promoted on site and was difficult to use, plus expensive. Ashland was able to bring out newer AME-6001 and AME-6441 as a result of the research they bought from DOW, previously used in Durakene.
And we never were AME-5000(1) or AME-4000(1) fans as they were not pure, thugh a hybrid of some VE blended, they failed every time in our testing and felt they were more hype than guts.
We remain using the same HK Barrier coat in all applications. Thats more than you knew and More than any other company will dare share. We will always continue to develop the best laminate structure and shoot for above 38% Fiberglass content.
Presently we have recently tested weight sampling on 8 different boat models with our summer intern (Kyle – UofA), his results display between 40.% and 43.1% fiberglass content by weight with the rest being resin.
An extremely high ratio for open laminates. We dont believe most production shops operate with this efficiency. Actually none we know of run this high of a glass ratio. There you have it answered and future developing questions answered as well.
BCB
Bass Cat Boats wrote:This post was copied from another board where a consumer had a question, which creates another question and etc. this should answer all resin questions through 2016 model year. #9 Today, 10:18 AM Obviously this is due to interest in a used boat. Easy answers are not easy, as further questions develop on other models and what about this model year. We continue to be transparent and pardon the lengthy answer for all. Some of this is archived here and we know its in parts. Resins have been an ongoing development since the 2004 MACT regulation was applied by EPA. The first boats post MACT were AOC Hydropel low HAP (VOC) Vinyl Ester and that proved to not perform to our preference, compared to what was previously used. We tested most every variant of low HAP VE before MACT and settled on AOC as the best in our results at that time. The previous VE resin was run from 1998 through 2003 and was an absolutely great pure vinyl ester across the board, used throughout on all products. Recession times set in with 911 and competition using much cheaper products post 2000 to 2004, or 2010, is all that prevents this today. Paying more than twice as much for resin and again bumping glass costs for AOC is not appealing to consumers price shopping. We have large dollars in better product and just two weeks ago a three time BCB owners was using price to navigate a Premium model for $3,000 less in another brand, while not shopping apples to apples. We understand the relationship to price, products and quality, though price alone is no comparative. In 2007 resins were changed to an extremely tough VE Barrier coat behind the Gelcoat and the most widely used (#1) marine resin, at that time, in the marine business, this was another AOC product. The barrier coat was a mess to deal with while it aged our facilites and equipment prematurely, worked great though was just to difficult and could not be cleaned once cures were initiated. It proved too costly on maintenance. In 2009 we stepped back into an AOC Iso blended hybrid that was supported with HK VE Barrier that proved out in testing. Next in fall of 2012 we had AOC develop our own hybrid resin that was from our spec window with different ingredients and properties, bought then as an X-2013 Experimental until recently in 2015 they gave it another number. Our sister company Nautique is presently testing this resin for their application. To date it is a BCB specific product. This remains used in all parts and rear laminates, plus all Advantage and Vision models. It has worked better than any resin to this time frame since MACT. We do remain using the HK Vinyl Ester barrier coat in a 20 to 25 mil thickness behind the Gelcoat to protect from crazing and permeation. In 2015 (2014 actual) model year we moved the Premium line to AME-6001 pure vinyl ester (VE) resins on the first laminates. This resin is not a hybrid and not available earlier. This then raised those resin cost by appx. 240% on some of these laminates all were over 215% more, more than double. Obviously we felt it is much better! The product became available after Ashland purchased the product line and the tech specs from DOW. Durakene was a solid VE resin that had to be promoted on site and was difficult to use, plus expensive. Ashland was able to bring out newer AME-6001 and AME-6441 as a result of the research they bought from DOW, previously used in Durakene. And we never were AME-5000(1) or AME-4000(1) fans as they were not pure, thugh a hybrid of some VE blended, they failed every time in our testing and felt they were more hype than guts.We remain using the same HK Barrier coat in all applications. Thats more than you knew and More than any other company will dare share. We will always continue to develop the bets laminate structure and shoot for above 38% Fiberglass content. Presently we have recently tested weight sampling on 8 different boat models with our summer intern (Kyle – UofA), his results display between 40.% and 43.1% fiberglass content by weight with the rest being resin. An extremely high ratio for open laminates. We dont believe most production shops operate with this efficiency. Actually none we know of run this high of a glass ratio. There you have it answered and future developing questions answered as well. BCBThats awesome! This is why I chose a BCB this time and in the futureSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So if I have a 2004 model that was produced in 2003, I should have the “good” resin?Jim EbarbMany, LA (Toledo Bend Lake)2004 Cougar/ 225 OptimaxHumminbird Helix 12 Chirp SI on BalzOut Mount at bowLowrance HDS 7 at bowHumminbird Helix 12 Mega SI on Ram Mount at ConsoleLowrance HDS 8 in dash at console
It has the best resin available at the time for 2004, though no it was just pre-MACT and is Hydropel. The change was made at model year as preparation was required to be done prior to 2004 CY.
This why I bought a Bass Cat as my first real bass boat ( fished out of a tracker for 5 years prior).Ozark rambler
I know this thread has been inactive for a while, but thought I’d ask. I have a 2007 Sabre FTD Marty Stone Edition serial number BAST0874C707. Any thoughts on the resin used in the build? I will say whatever resin was used, it’s tough stuff. I have a black boot that take a mild beating from stumps. It has very few scuffs, and no scratches in 10 years. Very tough hull.
The gelcoat is what prevents scuffing and the gels on a 2007 were HK brand. The scuffing has nothing to do with resin and the resin on a 2007 was most likely AOC Hydropel. From that time later there was a variety of resins till they settled in during 2012, which remains consistent since that time frame. Gels are still HK brand and resins in all Vision and Advantage series are the same proprietary blend. The hulls and decks on the Premium model series is about 60% AME-6001 or AME-6061 (Ashland), which is a pure vinyl Ester. The AME resin line has everything from a base grade cheap 1001 base resin to a 4001 and 5001. Then they stretch to the pure Vinyl Ester 6000 series. Behind the 6000 series the proprietary Iso resin, developed in 2012, that makes the remaining internal laminates. They also have an HK Vinyl Ester barrier coat between the gel and glass.BCB
Thanks BCB. Just curious how the 07 model resins, etc. compared to early/later models.One tough boat. But, then it’s a BCB.
Very interesting read. So if Im understanding this correctly, it looks like resins used in 2004, 2005, and 2006 varied as BCB worked thru pricing issues, the economy, and the environment. I have a 2006 PIV. Previously, I had a 2000 Jaguar. Im not a chemist nor a boat manufacturer, but as a consumer, there does appear to be a difference in the resin and/or gel coat from my old boat to my newer boat. In my 2006, Ive noticed a few places, 2 to 3 in length, where the surface of the boat has yellowed. I dont know if thats the surface or below the surface, hard to tell really. Its not a spill, and not near any gasoline or anything like that…..just appears to be age related to the materials.Boat has been great, but Ive always wondered why the color change in some areas. Heck, this color change may not even be related to materials…..but I find it interesting about the resin challenges in these year models.Again, I love my boat……just wondering if the change is resin related.
Hard to say without more work.
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