Home › Forums › Bass Cat Boats › 300R vs 300ProXS actual hp
Wheelman.
I don’t understand how Don can say there’s no reliable dyno difference, how are the CARB reports not reliable as manufacturers are certifying them for emission purposes which I would think carries a lot of weight? He requires everyone to post their serial # in a thread which I assume is because Mercury is wanting to track things or is there another reason he wants that info if he doesn’t get paid by Mercury to monitor the forum? It’s not rocket science that the engine with a higher rpm efficiency because of a different cam and shorter intake runner is going to make more power. If the 300R pushes the limits of the 10% rule then the 300ProXS can’t as well and the CARB report shows it makes 20hp less at a lower rpm.
http://www.bbcboards.net/showthread.php?t=1055079
If one’s at the limit (330hp) and the other’s 20 less – it’s still making at least 310, and over the sticker. The rest is essentially marketing, limiting LU choices on the XS. Back in the good ol days of 2 strokes, the 200 ProXS, was an expensive set of stickers with the same motor underneath. Merc is good at marketing.
Manufacturers fudging test figures? Ever achieve the EPA gas mileage on the window sticker? Gov’t mandated as well.
Mercury is very discreet about the power produced by the 300R and the Pro XS 300 is likely about 310 – 315 from our operation of the engine. Even the able staff in a test facility was tight lipped about how much the actual power was over other engines. Could someone twist it on a dyno, and they will, though even then Mercury has likely altered the electrical programming when certain conditions are experienced. We don’t believe your going to get the answer you’re after.
Him asking for the Serial Number gives Don the ability to look for updates and recalls. We don’t feel that Don is compensated by Mercury for his efforts and they are an individual activity on his own.
Jstew:
If one’s at the limit (330hp) and the other’s 20 less – it’s still making at least 310, and over the sticker. The rest is essentially marketing, limiting LU choices on the XS. Back in the good ol days of 2 strokes, the 200 ProXS, was an expensive set of stickers with the same motor underneath. Merc is good at marketing.
Manufacturers fudging test figures? Ever achieve the EPA gas mileage on the window sticker? Gov’t mandated as well.
What’s funny is the 300hp Sea Pro makes the same as the 250R and Pro XS according to the CARB reports at 276hp, plus 10% for the 250 and minus 10% for the 300. I guess chalk that up to good marketing like giving weights without cowling and claiming the lightest. The 300Pro XS dynoed 296hp or only 20hp more even though the sticker says 50 more. The 300R has to get the larger SM gear case out of the water and swing a high dollar large diameter CNC 5-blade prop to run as fast as the 300X on the A/B boats which is the highest dynoing 300 I thought.
I have if you drive it how they did for the test which isn’t normal as acceleration is at a super slow rate and no ac. Regardless dynoing in a controlled environment is a little more precise and look at what happened to VW for fudging things.
On Pro XS: this all started around the 2002 era.
The 200 Pro XS was just a decal on our suggestion to Mercury. They were concerned with the thought of it not gaining anything on HP. Eventually giving the 200 Pro XS status as it could not gain anything and was already 220 HP. That project was pushed and pushed, then Mercury President Mark Schwabero urged for the new logo with Dave Schedivy (VP) on into the brand image. All of that spun off momentum of the Pro XS project in 225 and 250.
At that time of our final 150 conversation (Shreveport Bassmaster Classic) they were able to show marketing competitive the glitz of Yamaha V-Max, Evinrude 150 HO Stars and Stripes cowlings and graphics they competed with on the display floor. While the Mercury Optimax engine was VERY drab and plain black and mostly white logo’d with the World Globe on it. Then the engines had very little color, which is mostly what helped the 225 Pro XS, a decal though the engine was one solid runner. Next was a stronger 165 HP 150 Pro XS, followed by a very low sales model of the 175 Pro XS and last was the 200 Pro XS.
As a side note, Rick still owns the original (#1) 225 Pro XS Engine that started this series. The entire Pro XS project was pressed for by Rick through Bass Cat. At the time John Hoagland was VP of Sales (now at Caymas), Mark Klossner (Now at BOSS Snowplows), Kevin Luebke (Now back at Mercury) was over Promotions, and several others like Todd Meier, Pam Behnke, Jack Litjens and Dean Lambert were in attendance that day Pro XS came to fruition, eventually naming the project Pro XS as the parts spun off the High Performance side XS engine, and was targeting Pro bass fishing. Fred Kiekhaefer (Mercury Racing and Carl’s son) would not let the parts go for the 250 XS as he wanted to keep control of that dominant 250 XS and not diminish it at the time.
The 225 Pro XS was the #1 product at Mercury within 6 months and Mercury had not spent one dime on advertising the product. Build it and they will come… Rick’s estimates were 80% Pro XS and 20% normal 225 Opti. Mercury set a plan for 30% Pro XS unbelieving that, the six month period had that segment at over 90% Pro XS.
Fred Kiekhaefer (Racing) softened with the popularity and in 2007 we had the first of the engines in 250 HP as the 250 Pro XS gained more market share and being direct injected stated regaining growing market share the Yamaha 250 V Max carb engine had attained.
Eventually the 2009 – 2010 recession took out most of those associated to the Pro XS project as cost cutting measures ensued. Fred Kiekhaefer retired appx. 2013 and moved to border a state park in the mountains.
There is a little more on the 200 Pro XS and part of the story.
I’d made a comment about the 200 Pro XS as marketing. I wasn’t meaning it as a negative. A company has the right to package and present their products anyway they choose that the buying market desires. It isn’t necessarily a negative, but how we as consumers purchase products. The 90’s version Mustang GT’s were the bad boys of their day with the 5.0. You could also buy the base model with the same 5.0, manual stick, upgraded suspension, and wheel / tire package for a lot less money. The base model was a much higher performance car because it wasn’t carrying 400 lbs. of body kit that made it look sportier but weighed it down. Was that a manipulation? Sort of – but it gave the bench racers something to talk about. Marketing isn’t a bad thing. It gives us the illusion of getting what we think we want. Most consumers really can’t tell the difference. Those that can tell the difference are rarely influenced by stickers and glitz.
Excellent read, thanks for the information.
As I understand it, and this is actually a question, not an answer. If a person is fishing with a heavy load almost all the time and the goal isn’t absolute ultimate top end speed that person would probably be better suited to stay with the PRO XS with the toruquemaster? If ultimate top end speed is the goal and one isn’t concerned with overall load carrying ability then the 300R with sportmaster would be the deal? It sounds like to me that It wouldn’t be worth upgrading to the 300R with the Tourquemaster because the gains would be minimal over the 300 PRO XS. IF you go with the R motor I guess you should be sure your application is suitable for the sportmaster and ultimate top end?
I am following this closely as my next rig will almost certainly be an EYRA with a 300 Mercury 4 stroke. I’m just not sure which direction would be best for me. My current 2 stroke 250 PRO XS will hit 80 when the conditions are right and I’ve seen as much as 81.8 but that is only attainable under optimal conditions. I want 80 plus MPH top end speed every day of the week and twice on Sunday fully loaded even in the summer. Am I wrong in thinking the 300 PRO XS with a tourquemaster would get me that? Assuming I know how to drive a boat fairly competently. LOL.
Chris Coupel
Paulina, La.
Only on an Eyra would the Sportmaster be a benefit. Most other setups with any load the TorqueMaster is great for. That includes the 300R.
We don’t understand why they don’t build the 250R in the TorqueMaster case?
I would be fine with an Eyra hitting 77-78 mph. My question, would the 300R with a torque master be faster out the hole with faster acceleration if propped correctly than the 250 Pro XS? Or is the only benefit of the 300R on top end?
My only gripe with the Eyra was its lack luster hole shot? I don’t expect it to compare to the PII, but if it came close with the 300R, that would be the ticket!
Don
Thank you for the response. I’m looking forward to the time when I make a move on the next one. My 2018 is a wonderful setup and I love everything about it. I even think I may have finally trained it to catch a few fish. No regrets as the new 4 strokes were not on the market yet when I bought it. In another year or so I’ll be ready!
Chris Coupel
Paulina, la.
The new Four Strokes should not have hole shot issues your mentioning on the Eyra, and the Yamaha SHO never did.
Bass Cat Boats:
We don’t understand why they don’t build the 250R in the TorqueMaster case?
My understanding is there is no difference in the 250R and 250ProXS other than the mounts and gear case, if a boat can’t do 85+ with 275hp then the Pro XS is the way to go.
Cajunhunter67:
I would be fine with an Eyra hitting 77-78 mph. My question, would the 300R with a torque master be faster out the hole with faster acceleration if propped correctly than the 250 Pro XS? Or is the only benefit of the 300R on top end?
My only gripe with the Eyra was its lack luster hole shot? I don’t expect it to compare to the PII, but if it came close with the 300R, that would be the ticket!
Don
I think a 300R with torque master would be an issue on an Eyra as it’d exceed the lower unit’s terminal velocity. Same prop and lower unit, the 300R makes slightly less lowend torque than the 300Pro XS because of it’s shorter intake runners, which the carb report shows a peak torque at 500rpm higher. My personal assessment for whatever it’s worth, the 250Pro XS on an Eyra is an 80mph setup and the 300Pro XS is an ~85mph rig because it makes only 20hp more than the 250 and 20hp less than 300R. The 300R needs the SM LU as it’ll do 90 in the right conditions and makes the most power, someone can correct me if I’m wrong.
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